The Way The Audio Industry Hires is Unnecessarily Humiliating, Disrespectful, and Wrong
Hiring practices in our industry have gotten really unnecessarily bad. It’s fixable and starts with YOU. And also, what makes co-hosts work?
Welcome to Dispatch #75 of The Audio Insurgent.
I wrote this dispatch two weeks ago–then a few days ago I thought to myself, “Geez, I didn’t get a single response to that dispatch. Weird.” Then I put together that I never hit “Publish.”
Opps.
So, after much delay…
[TODAY’S SHORT FIRST THING: CO-HOSTS] I was recently talking with my wife about one of her favorite podcasts.
This is actually quite unusual, because one of the reasons I’ve had a successful relationship with this woman for almost three decades is, primarily, because she could not care less about podcasting or radio or any of it.
She rarely listens to podcasts, but over the past few years, she has started listening to a small number of them. Then she did something that almost freaked me out. She asked me a question about the field I work in. She said, “What makes good co-hosts work?”
She explained that on some co-hosted podcasts she’s heard, there can sometimes be two (or more) hosts with very different personalities. She wanted to know what makes that work?
I thought about it for a moment, then told her that if you created a diagram of their personalities, it only works if it is a Venn diagram, with some intersecting territory.
Then I said something that I’ve been replaying in my head since, mostly to figure out if what I said was true (and it is): “And that intersecting territory…that is the connecting tissue to the audience too.” I meant that even if they have very different personalities: one is loud, the other more reserved; one is funny and the other is more earnest; one is dramatic while the other is more pragmatic–whatever combo they are–they share something in common. And the audience they’ll draw will also be people who share that same intersectional value, regardless of almost any other aspect of their personality.
Want to know what the audience for your new chat show will be like? Start drawing out the intersections between the hosts–and you’ll find the audience there too.
[TODAY’S MAIN THING: THE WAY THE AUDIO INDUSTRY HIRES IS UNNECESSARILY HUMILIATING, DISRESPECTFUL, AND WRONG] Many of us remember a time just a few years ago when hiring in audio was very different than it is today.
My moment of Zen on this came when I attempted to hire a young job candidate to be an Associate Producer. While she was very bright, her resume consisted of a college degree in journalism and a six-month internship on one radio show at NPR. But she had spent a lot of time learning to cut tape and was an impressive editorial thinker. We made what I thought was a generous offer to have her join Magnificent Noise.
She called back the next day and said she had a competing offer that was substantially more and wanted to know if I would match it. I asked how much the other offer was.
It was $91,000.
Again, this would be her first full time job out of college as an Associate Producer. I told her we couldn't do that and she politely told me that she was going to accept the other offer. In sharing that news with Jesse, I remarked that I was already a programming executive at NPR before I made more than $91,000. (It is worth noting that not only did the offered job not last even two years, but the company who offered her that salary is now completely out of business.)
That happened in 2019--Magnificent Noise was so new that we were still operating out of a WeWork office space and it wasn't even the height of the salad days for podcasting. But, man, times have changed since then in the audio industry, in many ways, but few more troubling than hiring and how the industry treats talent.
The audio industry has gone from recognizing, investing in, and fairly (if not generously) compensating talent to treating candidates, contractors, and freelancers as cheap commodities that can be mistreated and easily replaced.
This all follows the most basic rules of economics, right? Back in the late teens/early 20s, companies were trying to hire up so quickly that it was a sellers market. Companies were happily hiring anyone who could even passably fake their way into knowing how to make a podcast or cut digital audio. Those with experience or were highly skilled were flooded with unsolicited offers and if they did want to change jobs, they could often secure a new gig in just a few days (if not hours) with little effort. Companies often didn't even post jobs, because finding new employees often required you to go out and find them directly, then romance them with a high salary, perks, and interesting work.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, most of the time, but then everything changed, and with those changes, the power swung from supply to demand.
With massive layoffs attached to podcasting’s recession, there came a glut of people looking for work in audio and podcasting. Stories of top radio talent being lured away to podcasting and digital start-ups fizzled. When we at Mag Noise would post a job opening, before we’d get 20-30 resumes, then suddenly we’d routinely see 400-600 people apply. Now, instead of seeking out prospective employees and luring them to work with us, we were now seeing some of the industry’s best and brightest hitting us up. And in speaking to others hiring in podcasting and audio, I learned our experience wasn’t unique.
And that’s when all the bad stuff started to happen.
When we are hiring at Magnificent Noise, I talk to a lot of people seeking work. Many of them have been at it a long time. Occasionally, the conversation swings to some of their experiences looking for work in podcasting, radio, and digital audio.
And, frankly, the stories of practices at other companies are horrifying and depressing.
Not only is the work hard to get, but the way companies are treating potential employees and contractors now is embarrassing.
First off, there is the ghosting--there is a rush to get someone to interview and then...poof. No follow-up. No response. Nothing. Even worse is when the ghoster will come back out of the woodwork to offer a job that requires an almost immediate start date. Or is offered with a combination of below-market salary offer, limited or no benefits, or isn’t actually a job offer, but offering contract work at a salaried employee rate (which I've discussed before–see the “Big Operational Thing” section of this dispatch–is an unethical thing to do and contractors should not accept these arrangements).
Then there is the sticky matter of the pre-interview “homework”--sometimes hours of unpaid work to do a sample edit, writing exercise, outline an episode, provide detailed notes on an episode, or write a vision memo about a show or role. I’m often aghast at what companies ask potential producers, editors, and hosts to do as part of these homework assignments. At Magnificent Noise, we have an unwritten rule that we never create pre-interview work that would take more than an hour to do.
But the most shocking thing about these homework assignments is how often I hear from people that their feedback, pitched episode and segment ideas, or changes to a show actually end up in that very show, even when they didn’t get the job. I’ve heard dozens of these. Now, it may be a coincidence that a job candidate pitched an episode idea in their interview, and the show was considering the very same idea. I’m sure that happens, but not as frequently as I hear reports of ideas bleeding from interviews into production.
I’m sure there are readers raising their fists in the air at someone calling this out. I personally know dozens of people with similar stories–and it is such a bad look for our industry that these practices are so common. Some of these, of course, are not just a problem in digital audio and radio, but what is remarkable is how quickly companies have forgotten how to treat people.
When I am in charge of a hire at Magnificent Noise, there are a few rules that I follow:
Communicate progress, even when it is bad news. Almost every HR or job application web site allows employers to communicate to a pool of candidates en masse. I do so. When we weed out resumes from the piles who apply, at each level of the search, I write a quick note to those not selected to let them know that they aren’t moving forward.
Communicate the timeline. I tell those I phone screen and interview when I’ll be making decisions on who is moving forward and then I make sure I respond to them within that window. If I say, “You’ll hear from us one way or the other within a week”--I hold myself to that promise.
Never give out false hope. Tell people the truth. A hard truth is always better than a soft lie.
Keep the homework to under an hour of their time. I don’t ask someone to do homework unless they are a serious candidate for the job–and I don’t hesitate to give them an assignment to show their skill. But realize that this person either has a full-time job or is trying to get one and it isn’t fair to ask for a lot of their time. If you ask more than that, you should offer to pay them–because they are working. If this is all hard for you, and you want something deeper, ask them to share previous work that they’ve done that illustrates the skills you want to see showcased.
Make the homework assignment something you can’t or won’t use in the show. Enough said on that. But if you are in a situation where there is some crossover–acknowledge it up front. And if an idea is inspiringly great, find a way to compensate them if you want to use it, or perhaps give them the job!
Recruit for what you are offering. If you are recruiting for a position, don’t then offer a contracting gig. And if you want to hire someone as a contractor (and there is nothing wrong with that), be upfront and pay them accordingly. And don’t swindle people by offering them a contract gig at a rate that’s equal to what an employee would make.
Be clear on the rules and stick to the rules. I try to make it clear that since I’m looking at 400-600 resumes, I can’t do 1:1 conversations, informational interviews, etc. I also discourage people from contacting me outside the process and not send people we both know to advocate on their behalf. I’m not doing this to be rude, but to be fair. I read every cover letter and resume. It’s a level playing field, and I communicate that and hold to it.
Post your salary range. Transparency matters. In New York, we have to post the range. I think everyone should. And don’t post a full range unless a candidate can actually be hired in that range. (So many offer a range but don’t tell anyone that they can only be hired at the lower end.)
Treat applicants the way you’d want to be treated. It isn’t hard to imagine how you’d like to be treated if looking for a job. If that’s hard to imagine, treat them the way you’d want someone to treat your partner or your kid. In short, don’t be an asshole.
If all of this is too much for you to take in: communicate and be thoughtful.
That really isn’t asking so much, is it?
Okay, that’s it for today.
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Make great things. I’ll be listening.
--Eric