Not Everything Needs To Be A Podcast
Creators approach their projects with such passion and conviction, but never pause to ask if they are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Plus, it's almost Ask Eric Anything time!
Welcome to Dispatch #68 of The Audio Insurgent. First off, thanks for your patience with me as I took a bit of slow down from The Audio Insurgent this summer. I didn’t realize that I needed as much space as I took, but my inner voice has a way of guiding me to the decision I need–I just need to listen to myself.
This summer was a time of pretty intense reflection for me–mostly around what I prioritize and spend my time on outside of work–and making sure I have a physical work space (at home) that matches my needs. There was never any question that I love doing these dispatches–I just needed to take some time and energy to examine a lot of other things.
Details on that for another day. We should be back on a regular publishing schedule now.
Plus, look below for ANOTHER job opening we have at Magnificent Noise–this time for a more entry-level position.
And…it is time to submit your questions for the kinda-annual Ask Eric Anything dispatch.
So let’s go…
[TODAY’S THING: NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE A PODCAST] I’ve been having a number of conversations lately with people who want to start podcasts. Well, I always have these conversations, but recently I’m surprised by a new emerging theme in them…and the surprising advice I’ve given to many this summer.
I tell them: “Your creative idea shouldn’t be a podcast.”
Here’s an example taken from those phone calls.
I had a friend refer another friend to me, asking if I could help the friend’s friend figure out how to get his podcast idea in shape and perhaps I could help him to some degree.
The friend’s friend who called me, let’s call him Philip (not his real name), was publishing a book this fall. It is a collection of stories about everyday heroes–average people stepping up in extraordinary circumstances and doing breathtaking things.
Sounds great.
And Philip was very hot to do a podcast.
Philip wanted to re-interview these people (or reverse engineer recordings he’d already taped during his initial interviews–we’ve all heard this idea and it never works, right?) and create some narrative episodes of a new podcast featuring these same stories.
Not the worst idea you’ve ever heard, right?
But then I asked him why he was interested in podcasting.
“There is already a built-in audience for this book among those who follow my work, which is great,” Philip said. “But I really want young people to read this book, and podcasting reaches young people. The podcast would serve as an entry point to these stories and once the young people hear it, they will want to read the book.”
I stopped him there and told him something he was not expecting to hear from someone who gets paid to make podcasts and help others figure out podcasting.
I said, “I think you need to save your time and energy, because what you are suggesting will never work.”
More after this jump…
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So how did I move so quickly from “this isn’t the worst idea I’ve ever heard” to “this would be a waste of your time”?
It is going back to the content equations I’ve shared in the past. Philip has a tremendous well of moving, gripping stories…and he is forcing it into the wrong medium, to reach the wrong audience, for the wrong goal.
In most conversations I’ve had with enthusiastic potential podcasters over the past decade, I often ask “Why do you want to make a podcast?” I’m often listening for a complete idea, passion, curiosity, and a level head around expectations. I’m also listening for a realistic understanding of what it takes to make something work and, most important, at least some sense of who the audience for the podcast will be and how we can reach them.
But since the Great Podcasting Reset of 2022 and 2023, I’ve been asking that question from a slightly different perspective. I listen for all the things I mentioned, but I also ask it from more of an existential, fundamental perspective. Should this project even be a podcast? And increasingly, I’m advising people that their creative idea should be something else instead.
When I hear the kernel of the idea, often you can imagine it as a podcast, much as they have–but once we talk target audience, timeline, and other logistical/business imperatives, I suggest they think of their project as a video project for YouTube, or posts on social platforms like Instagram or TikTok, a book, or even a live event. Now remember, I’m an audio guy–I love audio and plan on making audio for the rest of my career–but I am trying to get clients to embrace that not everything makes sense as audio. And some things that made sense as audio at one time, may not make sense today–and definitely don’t make sense to just be audio.
For Philip, he’d written these stories as a book. And I think that’s wise, but he needs to think about those who are buying and reading books (hint: it isn’t “young people”--or at least a book like he has created). Of course the book buying public is really diverse, but non-fiction books skew a bit older than the Gen Z kids he wants to reach. If he wants to reach younger people, he should look at something like Humans of New York as an inspiration. It started out as an Instagram photography project, but is now reaching beyond its 20 million IG followers to releasing two books and a video series. And while there will certainly be some crossover between his following and his book buyers–the book buyers open him up to a fundamentally new audience who would likely never encounter him on IG otherwise. For Philip and his inspiring stories, it's kinda like the inverse.
I’m not suggesting that what Philip wanted to do would reach no younger listeners, it would just be a frustrating inefficient process for doing so. Let alone the issue of while it is clear what podcasts solves for him (reaching a younger audience), there had been no thought given to what problems it solves for its younger listeners. Audio is great at so many things, but that doesn’t mean it is always the right choice for everything.
Even further into the “why a podcast” conversation is asking “why JUST a podcast?” In podcasting in 2024, and media in general, it is increasingly difficult to make a single-platform property work and also impossible for an audio-only property to be successful on its own. There are a very small pool of podcasts (probably measured in the low hundreds) that can make a successful business and audience ecosystem by just being a podcast. In the halcyon days before 2022, when money was pouring into podcasting, it was possible to make ends meet as just an audio property. But part of the Great Podcasting Reset has been bringing that idea back down to Earth. Unless your goal is simple reach and impact (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a podcast project with just that goal), monetizing just a podcast audience would require a significant amount of time losing money in order to have any chance of ever making any money (and I think for most “significant” is measured in years).
I think today podcasting is a really essential part of a creator’s ecosystem of audience touch points, platforms, and properties. For many clients, I encourage them to look at the podcast as a central part of their community and audience. One new client is (smartly) looking at the podcast as almost a loss leader to build deeper relationships with her audience that will drive sales for books, live events, classes (in-person and online), and a product line. And that is exactly the way she should look at a podcast: measure its success in how the product lines grow, not just on its own singular P&L. And best to think of your “podcasting audience” as more like your “audience”--they interact with you across platforms and touch points.
I was talking about this all with someone last week and they pushed back hard on this, pointing out that they have sold option rights to their podcast to a movie studio, which made the economics of their podcast more sustainable, but, in their words, “it is just a podcast.”
I replied that it really isn’t just a podcast anymore. He’s sold his rights away to someone who is making it into something else, thus allowing my friend to outsource the expression on another platform. But it is now a multi-platform property, not “just” a podcast…just not always including him.
Look, I am and will always be audio-centric and audience first. Even when I work on other platforms, I always bring my audio sensibilities with me. So now that I’m spending a lot of time trying to learn video–I create video like an audio producer. But even though many like myself are more deeply embracing other platforms, that doesn’t mean I think audio is any less of a core experience.
And despite everything I’ve said here, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with creating an audio-only property. Creators just need to be prepared for the obstacles, challenges, and opportunities those choices present. If you have just as clear an eye on those challenges as you do the opportunities of audio–then you will be in good shape.
[TODAY’S OTHER THING: WE’RE HIRING (AGAIN)] We did a bit of an experiment last month. Usually when we post a new position, we get hundreds of applicants–and 80-90% of them don’t meet the minimum qualifications. So, instead, we listed job descriptions for our two new hires only here on The Audio Insurgent. That worked out shockingly well. We almost had an inverse: 80-90% of the people were arguably qualified for the jobs. We had almost 300 applicants and then shut it down after 5 days. Between readers applying and sharing with their friends and networks, we had an incredibly strong pool.
So we are going to try that again now.
We’d spoken about a new self-development and business program we’re working on this fall (and hired the incredibly talented Golda Arthur to lead that project–welcome to Mag Noise, Golda). We need to hire an Associate Producer for that project now. This isn’t an “entry level” position, but a good next job for someone in podcasting with a few years experience at the ground level. Here is the job description and link to apply.
[TODAY’S LAST THING: IT’S TIME TO ASK ERIC ANYTHING]
In preparing for this dispatch, I thought it was time to do my annual “Ask Eric Anything” dispatch–something I do once a year and it is a lot of fun, mostly because I have no idea what people will ask me to comment on–and that makes things super fun because the questions are often tough or on controversial topics. But then I realized I somehow skipped it last summer and haven’t done one of these since the summer of 2022, when The Audio Insurgent readership was about one-third of the size it is now. So, let’s go over how this works.
First, you can ask me about anything you think is relevant: podcasting, radio, ethics, editorial, workflow–whatever. If you would like to get a take on something, I’ll try. Let’s try to stick to things linked to audio and media. My coworkers and family would suggest you NOT ask about my new handwriting project–or I’ll go on for pages talking about the amazing color variations and light reactions in Birmingham Pen Company’s new “Railroad Spike” ink. (It is pretty magical, though.)
You can go here to fill out a Google form to submit your questions.
I’ll look through and answer them in an upcoming dispatch. The only no-fly zone is I won’t talk about specific people. I am more than happy to talk about the work their company does. Other than that–have at it, as you can see, I’m pretty comfortable taking on many things.
Okay, that’s it for today.
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Make great things. I’ll be listening.
--Eric